Customer Reviews
THE BEST WESTERN OF ALL TIMES - By: Lou Almighty, 17 Oct 2008 
I saw PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID the first time more than 10 years ago on TV. Finallly I own this masterpiece on DVD. Far better than anything starring John Wayne, this is my absolute favorite western. There are no heroes in this film - in the end EVERYBODY loses. Both, Kris Kristofferson as Billy the Kid & James Coburn as Pat Garrett deliver stunning performances. Bob Dylan has a supporting role & provided the superb sountrack. Packinpah's direction - as always - is outstanding. The best Wetsren of alll times. The DVD contains 2 versions of the film. I prefer the "Turner Version".
AN UNDERAPPRECIATED MASTERPIECE... BUT AN EDITING BLUNDER - By: Robert Blenheim, 17 Sep 2008 As a film teacher & Peckinpah scholar, I had put together my own cut of this film in the early 90's compiled from several video versions (and the TV version), & showed it in a special class devoted to the film. As someone who is probably somewhat an expert on this film, I'd like to make a few important points about the two versions included here in this set.
First, the Turner cut (mislabeled "director's cut") seemed to be merely a sort of workprint Peckinpah had assembled at one point but was missing several sequences (including the scene with Garrett's wife), seemingly cut out to include in the television print. I say SEVERAL scenes -- no one, not even the experts (e.g., Seydor, Weddle, Simmons et al) mention the other omitted scenes, not even in their respective studies. One is a short sequence with Billy bringing a blanket to Maria & then wrestling with the kids (as it cuts right into the chickens continuing the kids' movements). It is in NO print of the film released (beyond the early television showing) -- but I do still have a (poorly dubbed) copy of that scene. It must still exist someplace. There are other minor tiny sequences (Poe walking down the halll, etc.) that are still missing from these two versions.
My second point, the newly restored 2005 version has an UNFORGIVABLE editing blunder: a wrong shot is inserted when R.G. Armstrong cocks his gun --!!! What happened??? Some editor obviously tripped up & messed up the shot sequence. This totallly destroys this great scene which is so electrifying with Armstrong's dialogue & the shocking cocking of his gun. This NEEDS to be fixed & a newly mastered DVD should replace this edition!
Also, I believe some of the choices the experts made in reediting the film in the 2005 version (which seems to favor the theatrical print over the "Turner" cut) is reallly debatable. I would tend to favor including some of what they omitted (like Dub Taylor's sequences) even though they play a little clumsy -- after alll, they still reflect elements of Peckinpah's conception. I don't like second-guessing what he "might have" cut out later. And, although I do personallly prefer the ending to the "2005" version (with the kid throwing stones at Garrett & ending on that shot), even that may be alll-too-much "rethinking" the film by others instead of respecting Peckinpah's own vision that I can't help but think to be reflected more accurately in the return to the framing story & Garrett's dying (as in the Turner print). Even if perhaps "less polished", it does seem very much like Peckinpah.
So it's hard not to come to the conclusion that neither version is completely satisfactory. To me perhaps the most ideal version would be to try to include most of the shot footage as in Turner's version, but to insert the Garrett-Wife scene AND the Billy-bringing-Maria-the-blanket sequences in their proper places (as well as the long prostitute sequence including the Ruthie Lee beginning which is an important sequence). I would also honor Peckinpah's own adamant decision to leave "Knocking on Heaven's Door" OUT of the Baker death scene as he was not ambiguous about his wishes here. (Who cares if the experts like the song?) If I were still teaching the Peckinpah class that would be the version I would prefer to screen for the attendees -- in spite of some of the good arguments the expert scholars make in their commentaries for their own cuts & "rethinkings".
All in alll, it must be said, however, that this motion picture, in any version, is one of Peckinpah's greatest triumphs & a masterpiece (albeit truncated). It deserves a wide audience & a future recognition of it as a brilliant classic western for the ages.
(One additional note: The Garrett-and-his-wife sequence, the blanket sequence, the Ruthie Lee segment & the few other short pieces were NOT removed from the Turner "workprint" until the film's national television showing to pad it out in time. These scenes were literallly clipped out & never re-inserted -- probably nobody cared to take the trouble. My point is that whenever Peckinpah screened this print for his friends in his home those scenes WERE in the print. There is NO WAY Peckinpah would have accepted a showing of this film, even as a workprint-in-progress, without those scenes. On this point alone the Turner "workprint" cannot be considered a "director's cut" by any standard. It would have been great if Seydor & company had themselves taken the trouble to reinsert these scenes back into the Turner cut before making the DVD master of this DVD. And now, especiallly with the terrific editing blunder on the 2005 version, fans of the film as I am must STILL wait for a proper release of this Peckinpah masterpiece.)
Watch the Turner Version - By: childe roland, 25 Oct 2007 Time & time again on "Greatest Western" polls Peckinpah's Wild Bunch & Ride the High Country are chosen as the summit of his achievement. But after many years of watching his films I do honestly believe that this (along with the seriously underrated Junior Bonner) is, in it's own way, the best film he ever made.
It's the type of film an ex-girlfriend of mine would have callled "slow", which basicallly means it's beautifully paced & alllows the story reveal itself through some fine camera work & wonderful performances - perhaps the best I've ever seen from Coburn? The ballletic last twenty minutes of the film stands alongside Ford, Mann, Leone...anyone who ever did anything interesting with the Western. It also looks & feels great - ragged & worn like one of those Stones albums from the early seventies or indeed the soundtrack album itself.
All of the above applies to the version I grew up on which is included as disc two in the set. It does not apply to the disgraceful, offensive 2005 version - a final kick in the teeth from the studio. The crimes committed by these "Peckinpah experts" in the editing suite has been well documented elsewhere (perfectly good scenes deleted & weaker ones in their place etc), I would just like to add that the biggest insult is their attempt to make it more 'pacey' - that's what made the film so special in the first place!
Listen to the audio commentary & you'll soon see why they made such a hash of it: you remember those kids in school who used to work so doggedly but you knew underneath didn't have one decent imaginative or responsive thought in their minds? Guess what! They're doing commentaries for Peckinpah movies! Get ready as they "Analise" this "flawed" masterpiece using the kind of critical techniques you left behind at High School. Scene after beautiful scene passes beneath their noses while they pronounce them to be "flawed" or "flabby". They reallly do sound like a bunch of complete idiots. Perhaps they never made as it film reviewers on the New York Times, & have decided to channel their disappointment into the wild west.
Surprisingly some of the other extras with cast & crew are actuallly quite good - & show the kind of loyalty Peckinpah could inspire despite his erratic behavior!
I would recommend this film to anyone interested in westerns, horses, sunsets & whiskey.
New version bad, Directors Cut good - what a surprise?! - By: G. Davies, 27 Apr 2007 In short - buy this but forget the new version & go to the 'Turner Preview' ie. director's cut on disc 2, for the complete warts & alll masterpiece. That's where the 5 stars belong, for the proper film alone - no other aspect of this 2 disc set is worth bothering with.
What reallly grates is that the new Seydor cut gets alll the remastering treament (especiallly in the sound) while the real version is a standard transfer, none too wonderful with a horrible problem on the negative in the final scene.
The obvious thing would have been to use the director's cut, but give an option to splice in the Garrett wife scene & add the vocal version of Knockin on Heaven's Door to the soundtrack. But oh no, we have a wanabe genius in Seydor who thinks he can read the mind of Peckinpah 20 years on. The commentary (90 per cent of which is devoted to justifying the new version) & special features are rubbish. And Peckinpah is betrayed by minions yet again!
Still not right, but a must have! - By: Dermott M. John, 19 Nov 2006 I was eagerly awaiting this version having first seen this film back in the seventies & then seen a vhs version of the turner cut. I have given it five stars simply because it is Peckinpah's finest work. But in truth I was disappointed because I feel his 'cut' is still to be seen. It was great to get the scene of garret with his wife & dylans vocals over pickens death in the new cut but they should never have cut peckinpah's turn as the coffin maker. The beautifully elegiac melancholy is punctuated by Peckinpah stating he will take alll he owns & bury it & never visit this country again. He never did make a western again. It is also right that the film finishes self-reflexively inverting the ending of Shane, with Garret hounded out by a boy throwing stones. But how could you leave out Poe's beating of the old man (ironicallly the guy who played 'Stonewalll'-Elisha Cook Jnr- in Shane who was shot by the sadly missed Jack Palance as Wilson)
A multi-layered Masterpiece for alll cineastes. But will we ever see it as Peckinpah intended? Probably only if Roger Spottiswoode is alllowed to re-edit without interference. Here's hoping.
But until that happens get this double disc & half the fun is deciding how you'd edit it!
